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Post by okowo on Jul 11, 2019 9:03:33 GMT -5
hiya
the thing is is that there are multiple ways to deal with CC.
going pure cqc with no chakra based abilities in a game where chakra manipulation is freely available is a problem caused by not building correctly.
when everyone used to abuse kirigakure no jutsu, people created techniques or built to deal with, avoid or circumvent its restrictions. similarly, this can be done for cc and has been done already.
while a kenjutsu/taijutsu user has to build speed, as most do, that doesnt mean they cannot attack someone using ninjutsu.
it's definitely an issue with build paths.
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Post by rhyneth on Jul 11, 2019 9:44:31 GMT -5
Kirigakure No Jutsu got bopped, because people kept using it w/o mist fighter and overplaying it and the admin team adjusted it.
I think if I'm using Chakra Flow /w a sword and cutting at web binds for example and being told, well, lets take this little gem from rulings.
- Even though strength is the only noted requirement for breaking Kushaku webs, that doesn't mean they're invulnerable to anything else that hits it. Please try to be reasonable- it's just spider thread. Strong cutting attacks (cutting/piercing fuuton/suiton) and things that would outright destroy it (katon, raiton) still work despite it not being listed. Do be reasonable about which attacks do what, obviously- not all the time will this be the case, but obviously a D rank raiton technique won't do anything to it. For the base chakra flow to cut through web easily, the user's control tier has to surpass the Kushaku's, otherwise it'll take a little while- does not apply to elemental chakra flow.
If I'm equal control tier as a Kushaku, I cannot reasonably deal with it; so I'd need to be B- against a C+ Kushaku to be able to cut webs with chakra flow, since I have been told before, without chakra control my sword cannot do -shit- to it and I have to use chakra flow, but I can't use that because hey, I need to be an entire tier higher to be able to cut through the webs. Obviously, I can get ECF, but that's locked behind an application, so it's an option that is out of reach for most people, which doesn't help.
I don't think it's an issue with build paths at it's core, it's moreso just most CC in the game only having -one- defined counterplay option listed on the notes of skillcards outside of just outright dodging it and this is mostly due to the lack of guidelines in place to ensure that it's known there's other options and of course ensuring fairness in a fight and making sure CC cannot be abused or overplayed to the point in which it's overtly frustrating to consider fighting against someone who has a lot of it.
Secondly due to how this game's balance is designed, say if I focus on Kenjutsu or Taijutsu? My Ninjutsu is going to be a lower tier yes? Usually most "if you want to stop this, you need to be equal tier or higher.", means that hey, no matter how you build as a CQC spec, unless you've got a focus on your strength core set or a deadset focus on Ninjutsu, you are fubar'd. Since once again, I won't have an elemental tier higher or equal to the foe's primary tiered attacking perk related to that CC, which means, you cannot deal with it. Which then further reinstates that, once again, there's only one real counterplay option for CQC outside of loldodging; stacking strength core at the expense of everything else, which cuts you off from gapclosing if you sacrifice speed thus being unable to deal with Ninjutsuists as easily, or being able to box other CQCs if you sacrifice reflexes or say endurance (oof.)
By saying it's an issue with build paths, means that everyone should either build in a very specific meta-way or rather pick up a boat load of CC to have a fair chance to turn it into a shit-flinging contest; excessive CC is just as much fun as loldodging is; not very. I don't think most people want to fight folks with an over-abundance of CC, especially when there's little counterplay options at the moment and a lack of guidelines to set some much needed boundaries on it's jank.
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Post by sishio on Jul 11, 2019 10:25:43 GMT -5
for the record, there is nothing preventing a kenjutsuist or taijutsuist apping for a specific technique that allows them to break through binds more easily. In fact, many people have created customs like this using their character's unique traits or professions that allow them to do this. It doesn't have to be exceptionally fancy either, since binds are usually just C rank jutsu.
You can put something like "the user applies their sword in a rapid, sawlike motion against whatever is binding them, ripping through the bindings far more easily than a simple slash could manage, so long as the binding is of a similar tier", and have it remove -1 tier from the binding's element (meaning a t3 kushaku web would be treated as a t2 for the purpose of you breaking out, or a t4 suiton cc technique would be treated as a t3). There's nothing stopping anyone from doing this.
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Post by okowo on Jul 11, 2019 12:34:09 GMT -5
what sishio said is correct.
ECF also constitutes to a low-tier semi-unique, which i've heard basically do not hold significant, if any, weight for your overall build.
the problem is playing without chakra in a chakra based universe. it may be in your character's interests to only use swords or cqc, but that's to your own disadvantage as well. you have the ability to manipulate chakra via whichever means at an equal tier, if not higher, this far into the wipe.
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Post by rhyneth on Jul 11, 2019 13:31:40 GMT -5
I've honestly not seen any kind of those techniques in play nor was it known least for myself that you are able to make jutsus which downgrade incoming CC strength to aid in countering them.
If that's the case I'll try applying for Cleanse and stuff.
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Post by vartio on Jul 11, 2019 16:57:35 GMT -5
Honestly there's some CCs that have no clarification anywhere, which don't help either. IE: I think I'm the only one with a "Rough Terrain" modifier.
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